22 April 2007

Blargument, Round 2

It seems I struck a nerve with Anonymous, who replied to "Should have seen this coming...":

I think it was very petty of you to pick on my grammer. Did it make you feel more intelligent? Was your sarcasm about my bravery meant to be funny? Do you believe that the Bible does not contradict itself? If so you have to consider all the verses from old and new testaments, that refer to Jehovah and Jesus. What about Colossians 2:9 "The fullness of the Godhead is ALL IN HIM" Jesus. Jesus was fully God and Fully man. Jesus is revealed name of God prophesied about in the Old Testament. Father is not a name. Son is not a name. Holy Spirit is not a name. Jesus is the only name in heaven where by we must be saved. To view a visual that puts the scriptures into prospective visit http://www.lighthouseapostolic.com/onegodxl.bmp . God Bless you! [name removed by AG] P.S. The only reason I was identified as anonymous is that I do not have a google/blogger account.

Anonymous, you are right to be anonymous; I shouldn't have questioned your bravery. Having
said that...

In reply, let me start by saying I'm sorry you have bad grammAr. It did not make me feel more intelligent; it disappointed me. Our country is one where the education standards are mixed, and priority is certainly not given to grammar. When I see bad grammar, I fix it. By submitting a comment, you submit it to criticism, just like when I post a blog, I submit it to the public to read or criticize.

I do believe the Bible does not contradict itself. On Colossians 2:9, it is better translated as "because in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily. . .", at least that is a more literal translation of the Greek. Jesus is not the revealed name of God; Yahweh is (Ex. 3:14), or "I AM WHO I AM" if you prefer ("Joshua" is A name of God, just like "Jehovah-Jireh" and many others, and we both agree that they all describe the one God). And if "Father" and "Holy Spirit" are not names, how do you explain Matthew 28:19? And you did not answer my questions from my last reply.

Also, I have a couple of questions regarding your monotheism:
  1. When Jesus was on earth, was Heaven empty?
  2. When Jesus is with us now (as you state on your website) and not the Holy Spirit (as a separate person of the one God), then who is in Heaven now?
  3. Did Jesus ascend and then descend?
  4. When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said, "receive the Holy Spirit," why was Jesus still there, if they are indeed the same person?
  5. When Jesus was on the cross, did he pray "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to himself? If not, then to whom?
  6. Who, according to Ephesians 1:17-23, raised Jesus from the dead?
  7. To whom did Jesus pray in John 17?
  8. In John 17:11, why did Jesus say, "that they may be one, even as WE are"? (PS. the "we" is in the Greek).
  9. If Jesus and the Father are the same, then why did Peter say that God performed miracles through Jesus (Acts 2:22)?
  10. If the three are in fact Jesus only, then how do you explain verses like Acts 2:33; Acts 10:38 (God anointed him [Jesus] with the Holy Spirit); and many others I need not name here?

Many more questions can be asked at this point; many verses could be brought up as well. I just don't see how you can claim that there is no Holy Spirit or Father as distinct from the Son. Colossians proves Jesus is God; it does not prove that Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

I may have taken a sarcastic tone which comes off as being irritated. You're right; I should not be personally offensive; if I insulted you as a person, I ask for your forgiveness. However, your ideas are another matter. I am irritated at your teaching, which goes against centuries of established orthodoxy, an orthodoxy which extends all the way back to the writing of the New Testament itself. You may certainly reply again, but I can tell you that this is probably going to be a vigorous debate. And being as this is a blog and not a forum, I can choose when the discussion ends. I am happy to continue hearing your side, but I guarantee that I will remain unmoved. I stand with the New Testament, not a church founded in 1952.


1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Your apology is accepted. I did not mean to offend you with my bad grammar. It is wonderful that you mentioned Matt. 28:19. It states to baptize in the NAME(singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We can see in the book of Acts (where the first church was established) that the Apostles did just that. My church was not founded in 1952, it was established in the book of Acts by the Apostles. How do you explain that EVERY baptism in the Bible is done in Jesus name. I do not claim that there is no Father or Holy Spirit. Monotheism is what is taught from the beginning. Remember Hear O'Isreal the Lord thy God is one God. One, Mono, Jehovah Jirah, Jehovah Nissi, Jehovah Shalom, still one God. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God has been the teaching the days of Adam. You can stand unwaivering, but all I ask is that you pray that God show you what he wants you to see. My beliefs are not founded on mans doctrine, that was rewritten at the council of Nicea in 325AD, but on the doctrine outlined in the Bible by the Apostles and inspired by God. If you can find one instance in the Bible where there was a baptism that used trinitarian formula of Father, Son, Holy Ghost I would like to know about it. Unless you are saying that the Apostles are wrong, then they followed Matt.28:19 exactly. When you say that if Jesus was the Father then heaven would have been empty when Jesus was on earth, the Bible answers this in that God is a Spirit, he is everywhere, all at once. Jesus is a manefestation, God wrapped in the flesh. Only one sits on the throne. The Lamb is on the throne, and the Lamb is Jesus. I ask you were the apostles wrong or did they understand Jesus completely? He said baptize in the NAME, and they baptized EVERY time in the NAME of Jesus. We have to conclude that they knew that, that name was and is JESUS. There is no other name, there is no other way. God Bless you!